Episode 22: Innovating on the Go-To-Market Strategy for Athletic Leisure Wear

Episode Transcript

Garrett: Well hello, everyone. It’s 2023. Good luck with your time warp, trying to figure out when we actually record these.

Brady Cramm: Yep. Happy Valentine’s Day.

Garrett: Oh yeah, thank you for those who served. But we are because they’re like… I think it’s Memorial Day, right? Would be coming up?

Brady Cramm: Yeah, Veteran’s Day is like October, right? inaudible.

Garrett: But it’s different than Memorial Day. No, I think Memorial Day is different than Veteran’s Day.

Brady Cramm: No, it is. I’m just trying to think when holidays are.

Garrett: I don’t know, but I’m sure there’s a big holiday like Easter.

Brady Cramm: It’s early January right now. Just so everyone gets the bit.

Garrett: Valentine’s Day coming up. It’s our first time recording back in 2023. Excited to be back in the studio hanging out with you all. Brady, what’s your biggest goal for this year? You got a big goal for everybody?

Brady Cramm: I mean, always like to be financially smart, always trying to grow assets.

Garrett: Can you be more vague for us? Give me something. Give me a goal. Come on, give me something specific.

Brady Cramm: I mean, I’d like to acquire another property.

Garrett: Okay, there you go. Okay, and I think you’re building a little bit of a real estate empire. You got some spots in Baltimore potentially?

Brady Cramm: Yeah, I got one spot in Baltimore.

Garrett: Then you have your house there?

Brady Cramm: Then the big move would be upgrading the house and keeping the current house, which I don’t think this year is the year to do that, but you never know.

Garrett: I feel like the game’s appreciation right now, not cashflow. So, I feel like-

Brady Cramm: Yeah well, with interest rates, it’s definitely not cashflow.

Garrett: Definitely not cashflow right now. But maybe you could break even, count the appreciation in a separate… that’s one of the things. I have a couple properties and I do this, I drastically undervalued appreciation and focused way too much on cashflow. And I’ve definitely made the money in the game in the appreciation of the assets, not the cashflow, which I thought was interesting because you go into it reading all the Bigger Pockets stuff or everything, you’re like, ” All right, I’m going to get into real estate and I’m going to get… They’re all going to cash flow and I’m going to be making X amount from my properties.” That’s a further dream that most people want to be honest about, especially with the way interest rates are. Because I was able to refi down to two point something on both properties because I had them before this craziness. But now, I mean, you aren’t going to cashflow anytime soon, years. So, you have to come up with a way of tracking appreciation

Brady Cramm: And if you do get a crazy interest rate drop and get to refi, even if it’s 10 years from now-

Garrett: It probably still ain’t 2. 7.

Brady Cramm: No. But if you start now, you don’t really think about cashflow, and then that 3% interest rate hits again in 10 years, you’ve already paid a lot into that mortgage. You can then do a major cash out refi on that property and use that additional cash to buy another one because interest rates are low.

Garrett: And this is definitely home investing advice, so do everything we’re saying.

Brady Cramm: It’s not like, is it real estate arbitrage? Is that what they call it when you just keep pulling money out of a loan when interest rates drop to…

Garrett: What do we know? We don’t, so take this all with a grain of salt. This is what we do.

Brady Cramm: It’s a goal. I don’t know. I haven’t achieved it yet.

Garrett: No, I know. I love it. I didn’t even inaudible I just realized we were just giving out financial advice on the podcast. Like, hey, we’re not pros at this.

Brady Cramm: I mean, I go on my Instagram, everyone’s saying anything. It’s crazy. It’s funny too,

Garrett: But that’s a big inaudible. So, the next one, which area are you going to target?

Brady Cramm: I don’t know.

Garrett: More of a family style home? Because you’re currently in a home or a condo?

Brady Cramm: It’s like a row home, I think is what it’s called.

Garrett: So, is it connected to another?

Brady Cramm: Yeah.

Garrett: So you share a wall?

Brady Cramm: I think so, yeah.

Garrett: And now you want to not share a wall?

Brady Cramm: I mean, I’m fine with the wall sharing. It’s all price and what the rent would go for and…

Garrett: That’d be sick.

Brady Cramm: How much money I have.

Garrett: Yeah. So, maybe end of the year?

Brady Cramm: We’ll see.

Garrett: That’d be pretty cool.

Brady Cramm: Yeah, that’d be good. What about you?

Garrett: Okay, so I want to get a bigger boat and fish all of Baja, down the Pacific side and then through the Gulf of California, and fish all Baja.

Brady Cramm: That be dope. I learned on our trip this year, just that Baja is a peninsula like that.

Garrett: It’s crazy.

Brady Cramm: I did well in geography back in the day.

Garrett: Wait, you didn’t realize Baja was…

Brady Cramm: Well, I just looked up where we went. We went to Cabo, right?

Garrett: Yeah.

Brady Cramm: So, I look it up. I’m looking at the map. I’m like, ” Oh wow. Right below us in California is this little peninsula.” I know Mexico’s massive. I just have never really thought of the-

Garrett: Geographic nature.

Brady Cramm: …the exact geographic nature of what Baja is versus the main area of land.

Garrett: I love Baja. I mean, obviously it’s got its issues.

Brady Cramm: I thought it was cool. I’ve only driven past the border, so I’ve only seen the Rosarito part of Baja. So, it was nice to fly over everything and experience what I thought was pretty different than even Rosarito.

Garrett: Yeah, oh yeah. Cabo’s exponentially different than Ensenada or Rosarito. So, I just want to go through all those areas, fish it all. I want to get a boat large enough to have the kids and the wife on and then have… ideally if I could, I mean pull it off, a captain who would drive the boat from port to port, and then I could be working, fly down for the weekend, fish, hang out on that port. Fly back. I already talked to Maya about it, she’s super excited. So, I got the lady bought in and I just got to work harder.

Brady Cramm: And it’s a business. That’s what we learned when we went to Cabo, is the owner of that boat was from Santa Cruz.

Garrett: I think he was in Fresno, dude. Like, “What?”

Brady Cramm: Oh, because the boat said Santa Cruz on as the main marina location. But he wasn’t there. It was the captain he hired, he was on his 220th trip of the year.

Garrett: So, I would have it like that too. So, I would hopefully get the boat to pay for itself.

Brady Cramm: Yeah, exactly.

Garrett: Do my marketing.

Brady Cramm: It’s like a passive income.

Garrett: Have Scarlet help out with the socials, so the social’s sick, maybe a little apparel we talked about.

Brady Cramm: Do that user generated content.

Garrett: We talked about all this, dude.

Brady Cramm: Yeah, we did talk about, it.

Garrett: I’m literally going to just execute one of our-

Brady Cramm: Yeah, bring it to life. We already planned it.

Garrett: …Market This! strategies because I got so pumped. I was like, ” I got to do this. This is too much fun.” So, I’m excited about that and just figuring out how to make it all work. So, that’s probably my big goal. But I mean, we crushed December at Directive. So, we had a big December. A lot of our competitors, who will not be named, but they were doing layoffs, struggling, pivoting. We haven’t seen any macro decline, to be honest. I mean, literally, I think December was the second biggest sales month in the history of the company, right? Well, what do we do in bookings?

Brady Cramm: Think, I just know all of my T1, or T3, I don’t know December off the top of my head.

Garrett: But we had a good T3, best trimester for sales.

Brady Cramm: Yeah, it was the best trimester we’ve ever had in sales. I think I was involved in 4. 8 million in bookings and what should be the inaudible-

Garrett: Is that it? Even with all those vacations, you still-

Brady Cramm: Even flying out to London to support the team at Directive.

Garrett: To get that Sugar CRM deal to close.

Brady Cramm: Going to Cabo to support the team at Directive.

Garrett: Yeah, yeah, you’re a servant.

Brady Cramm: And then I went to Hawaii to relax. Yeah, it all kept rolling.

Garrett: It did. It really did. We had a great start and it looks like the start of the year, I mean by literally January 3rd, you were so busy we had to make you an AE, so now you’re in ae.

Brady Cramm: It’s crazy.

Garrett: You couldn’t get a call with us till like February 15th or something on January 3rd.

Brady Cramm: And we don’t have a small team, but-

Garrett: No, it’s not a small team.

Brady Cramm: …people were trying to book meetings and it would push out to late Jan-

Garrett: Over a month, yeah.

Garrett: We had to

Garrett: open up some capacity. So, we’re hiring obviously for more sales people. And then Brady is hopping on some more sales calls independently. So, been a fun start to the year. It’s probably most of what we have going on. We’re launching a new customer gen 2. 0, so I think-

Brady Cramm: That’s exciting.

Garrett: …that’s exciting. We’re pivoting, I wouldn’t say pivoting, we’re expanding is a better word. So we’re expanding outside of just SaaS into tech. I think that’s really exciting. It’s going to give ideally our customers a lot more dynamic way of serving them because we’re going to have some consumer tech companies as well as some B2B tech companies. I think you’re going to see today on advertising jealousy, as well as just the way we talk about Market This! There’s so much B2B can learn from B2C and there’s so much B2C you can learn from B2B. And when you start taking the strategies that working well in one and bring it to the other, you’re always an innovator. So if you do influencer marketing and B2B, you’re an innovator. If you’re doing really, really strong account expansion, or sales enablement, or account- based things in the consumer side, you’re an innovator. So, it’s bringing what we’ve learned from each, I think to the other, is going to create a really dynamic environment for tech companies.

Brady Cramm: And the business models are exactly the same. It’s just different numbers.

Garrett: Correct.

Brady Cramm: B2C is a larger audience, lower AOV and B2B is smaller audience, larger AOV. That’s exactly what it is. Retention is still the same focus. Both have more project- based revenue short term, where they don’t think about retention, they just think about that one purchase. When you take a step back, they’re identical.

Garrett: And I think when you bring LTV modeling to consumer stuff, it’s probably insightful for people who are very transactional. And so, I think it is going to be really, really cool. So, really excited about 2023. I think we got a great year ahead of us and excited to keep doing this show with y’all. So, with that, you ready to dive into a little advertising jealousy? Let’s

Brady Cramm: Let’s do it.

Garrett: All right. Let’s start with yours today.

Brady Cramm: All right, let’s switch it over. So, mine is a car ad. We’ve done a few of these, but the reason why I’m jealous of this-

Garrett: You’ve done more car ads than me now actually.

Brady Cramm: I know, and I-

Garrett: I know.

Brady Cramm: I’m into cars. I just don’t buy a new car

Garrett: Yet.

Brady Cramm: Yet. I’m going on, I think… I thought about it this weekend, eight years.

Garrett: Eight years.

Brady Cramm: In the hatchback hybrid.

Garrett: Is that your longest relationship?

Brady Cramm: Yeah, it is.

Garrett: Because that’s longer than you’ve been with Lindsay.

Brady Cramm: Yeah.

Garrett: inaudible.

Brady Cramm: It’s longer than I’ve been at Directive.

Garrett: You did, you had that hatchback-

Brady Cramm: Yeah, I bought that car-

Garrett: Oh my gosh.

Brady Cramm: …before directive.

Garrett: I love it.

Brady Cramm: But yeah, so this car ad, I’m jealous because of the copy. The car, so what it is a Land Cruiser Heritage V6, which is a specialty Land Cruiser. My first question to you is when do you think this ad was made?

Garrett: Let me read it all.

Brady Cramm: Don’t read it all. Actually, it doesn’t really say it but…

Garrett: Well, no, I got to think. So, I would say 2012 and it’s used in developing countries.

Brady Cramm: So, this is a 2020, is when they started this model. This might be like a 2021, 2022 ad.

Garrett: So, I was even …

Brady Cramm: Which if you saw the front of this car, it looks a lot newer, but this is an ad from the United Arab Emirates.

Garrett: I Was going to say, I didn’t want to say it but I was going to say Arab because I saw the Al- Futtaim.

Brady Cramm: Yeah, I want to say they’re in maybe Dubai, but they tried to bring this car to the US. I don’t think it worked too well and it was a worse version.

Garrett: It looks ghetto-ey.

Brady Cramm: It’s a throwback. So, their goal is to do a throwback Land Cruiser with a V6 engine. I think over there, they have manual and automatic.

Garrett: That’s sick.

Brady Cramm: So, the car I looked into, because it looked like it was from the’80s, which the search engine headline wouldn’t make sense, or the’90s. So I looked into it as an interesting car. But that headline, ” The original search engine,” I think a lot of this is because of my background, but I do think that headline connects with consumers is like, oh, it’s something you can go anywhere and find anything.

Garrett: I love it.

Brady Cramm: And I’m jealous of it because I’m bummed they used it on this car. This car to me just doesn’t seem like a huge deal. And even in Dubai, I don’t think it’s the most popular thing to purchase.

Garrett: It has to be pretty pop dude, these things… So, okay, so I have the blessing of growing up a missionary kid and been to Dubai before, been to all these places. I’ve been to all the different continents, gotten to see so much, especially in under- developing areas. These cars are so popular, dude.

Brady Cramm: Yeah, I mean I know that’s like the origin of the G wagon, Mercedes.

Garrett: Yeah and there aren’t any of those. It’s all Toyota. This car is like the GOAT of undeveloped countries. Now, what I want to see on here that I think would be super sick, is what they don’t really talk about, I think are two areas. I think people care about the suspension a lot because the roads aren’t as good. So, what it doesn’t say for example on there is, is it four- wheel drive or not? Doesn’t say if it’s four- wheel drive. So, I think that’s a big miss, thinking about where they’re selling it and then if it’s Apple CarPlay compatible with wireless, wireless CarPlay, if you could… because think about it, you get all… because people don’t want to buy an old Land Cruiser. They want to buy a new Land Cruiser without paying and have it be really functional. Primarily, I would argue, what are the shocks in the springs? What’s the rear axle and then what’s the drivetrain? Is it a four by four or not? Because if you had all that in there and it was like… So, it’s missing some key features in my opinion. It says Bluetooth. Does it CarPlay enable, retro fabric seats? I don’t know if the fabric of the seats is more important than if it’s four by four, what do you think?

Brady Cramm: Yeah, it’s like retro cloth fabric, which isn’t the most enticing thing, but the goal was for it to be this retro car, but so powerful, V6. I guess maybe there’s a V4 in it.

Garrett: I think there’s also more to it because… So, parts and labor are really important. So, I would imagine in these regions, if they’re all really good at working on this Land Cruiser already, then you could sell essentially… You get what I’m going with this?

Brady Cramm: Yeah.

Garrett: You put yourself in a much healthier spot when you have supply chain issues in some of these regions. So I really, really liked that as a concept.

Brady Cramm: But I’m just jealous of that headline. I wish it wasn’t taken because I’ve only seen it in these print ads. There’s maybe one or two print ads. But that concept of the original search engine, I just wish it was taken further. I wish it was done just selfishly in the States, so I could see more of that ad campaign. But I just imagine even a kid saying like, ” Oh dad, can you look up this? How big is… ” whatever rainbow trout in the Sierras. And instead of Googling it, they get in the car and they go.

Garrett: Is there no video of this campaign?

Brady Cramm: No, this is all I could find was-

Garrett: What?

Brady Cramm: …in the United Arab Emirates?

Garrett: This is absolutely … you’re right. It’s so good.

Brady Cramm: It is so good. And so, I’m curious what your thoughts are on that. That line is now taken, right?

Garrett: No, it’s not.

Brady Cramm: Well, technically yes, they did it. So, what are your thoughts on Range Rover, US based taking that headline, maybe very close to it and building a full campaign around it?

Garrett: Well, if it’s just done by Al- Futtaim Motors, I’m sorry for butchering that inevitably there, I just probably did, and it was done by them, not Toyota.

Brady Cramm: Yeah, I don’t know where-

Garrett: That could be the difference. If Toyota did a whole campaign around the original search engine-

Brady Cramm: And then Range Rover.

Garrett: …then you couldn’t do it.

Brady Cramm: So, I mean inaudible technically-

Garrett: But if a random dealer in UAE did it, you’re probably fine if you’re with somebody else.

Brady Cramm: Yeah. So, if it’s mostly by Toyota, they can maybe look at this as a proof of concept if the market got good feedback and then take it to other countries and build full campaigns around it because I-

Garrett: Correct.

Brady Cramm: …I personally love the headline.

Garrett: I absolutely love the headline, but I could also do a variation of it that you’d love just as much, the original Google Maps.

Brady Cramm: See, you know why I don’t love it as much?

Garrett: Why?

Brady Cramm: Is because of the double entendre in engine. That’s what, just the fact that the car has the engine, the search engine.

Garrett: I never got to the double entendre in my brain though. I never did.

Brady Cramm: That’s where the magic happened. When I first read it. I started thinking, ” Oh yeah, search engine, find anything, this car, you can find anything.” But then once I noticed engine in a car, search engine is the name of the search engine.

Garrett: Shouldn’t it have a landscape shot where the vehicle’s moving though?

Brady Cramm: Yes, yes, yes. That’s where I just want to focus on that headline.

Garrett: The headline. Best headline ever. I agree.

Brady Cramm: Yeah. And it made me jealous to the point where I wish it was something that was in my market that I could see. I wish it was taken further.

Garrett: You could just take the search engine concept, get rid of the original, and then you could also reclaim it. So, you could do something like that.

Brady Cramm: Yeah, the most powerful search engine. And that talks about the V6 and you could definitely play with search engine without completely duplicating the concept.

Garrett: Was that because the old one was inline- four, they had a four cylinder engine? Or not, you never got it that far?

Brady Cramm: No, that was something I was reading was, I don’t know if the old one … The old one was V6 and they went with an inline- four for a while and now they’re bringing that V6 back, might be a part of this.

Garrett: But that’s what’s so weird, is I’m a bit more… I guess I’m a car guy in sense, I know why they do things and how they work a little bit. I’m not great at it, but I’m above average now. I just think they probably… They aren’t really speaking to why someone in UAE buys a Land Cruiser. That’s my point. I think they needed a V6 because the four cylinders couldn’t tow things, or couldn’t… If you put 12 people in one of these instead of four.

Brady Cramm: Yeah, yeah, no, there’s a cool Range Rover ad, which I won’t bring it up later. It’s okay if I talk about it now. It’s like, can you spot the Range Rover? And it’s a super busy-

Garrett: Can you pull it up, Charlotte, for me? I want to see this ad. Yeah, so he doesn’t play a bad radio or something?

Brady Cramm: Oh, now I have to confirm that it was a Range Rover. Come on man, let me just…

Garrett: There you go. No, no, you said it.

Brady Cramm: Spot the Range Rover picture. Okay, it’s the first one on the left. So, this type of concept.

Garrett: Like a Where’s Waldo ad? Let me see. Oh okay, it’s the one off inaudible.

Brady Cramm: So, there’s a ton of traffic and then the Range Rover is off in the sand.

Garrett: That’s pretty cool.

Brady Cramm: So, that is more visual conceptualization versus the headline.

Garrett: And then if you just put the original search engine right above it, that’s…

Brady Cramm: Talk about search engine traffic, oh my God. The original hosting provider, I don’t know.

Garrett: Oh, goodbye road. Goodbye traffic. Goodbye inaudible. See, I love when people do the triple goodbye there on the copy, on that first line below.

Brady Cramm: Which I’ve seen people mob in Vegas. Have you seen those people on the dirt road?

Garrett: Yeah, I have, actually.

Brady Cramm: When there’s crazy traffic.

Garrett: I’m usually the one waving inaudible.

Brady Cramm: Yeah, right.

Garrett: That’s sick. Oh, I love it. All right, well let’s look at mine real quick. Ronald.

Brady Cramm: Good old Ronald. We’ve talked about Ronald McDonald. Now it’s time about Ronald Reagan.

Garrett: Well, we’ve talked about influencer marketing and everybody acts like it’s this whole thing that’s taking the world by storm. And I saw this ad and I was like, bruh.

Brady Cramm: I mean this is more of a celebrity spot than influencer. Maybe the ultimate influencer.

Garrett: Well, he wasn’t a president yet.

Brady Cramm: Oh, this is pre- presidency. That’s interesting.

Garrett: Yeah, I think I’m not crazy on this, right? Scarlet, Ronald Regan was an actor before he became president? Peter? Peter, the guy behind the camera, can you just confirm?

Brady Cramm: I did not know that. Peter’s confirming.

Garrett: Yes, thank you, Peter. Yeah, so I was fairly certain about that. So yeah, so see how he started in Hong Kong. Pine Thomas, Paramount Production, color by Technicolor. So, this is 1950s, Ronald Reagan literally signing boxes of Christmas card cartons. So, imagine getting your Aunt Susan just a big old carton of Chesterfields.

Brady Cramm: Yeah, I mean that was even funny in the Cabo airport, they were selling just boxes of cigarettes.

Garrett: And when you and I are always wondering who buys these? There was a line.

Brady Cramm: Oh really?

Garrett: Oh yeah, people were buying them. They were buying boxes of them. He says, ” I’m sending Chesterfields to all my friends. That’s the merriest Christmas any smoker can have. Chesterfield mildness plus no unpleasant aftertaste.” So, I did like that part. So, I liked that they had some product innovation.

Brady Cramm: With the to and from on the box, you show him actually writing within that, pretty good packaging.

Garrett: Great packaging. And what I really liked about it more was the features, so no unpleasant aftertaste and then the mildness.

Brady Cramm: I don’t really believe that’s possible, but maybe-

Garrett: I mean, look at him. Look how happy he looks.

Brady Cramm: Yeah, inaudible.

Garrett: I love that he has one in his mouth while-

Brady Cramm: It’s the most impressive smile with a cigarette in your mouth I’ve ever seen. It’s probably Photoshopped.

Garrett: Could they do that back then?

Brady Cramm: Well, they had their methods.

Garrett: They were way better though at smoking back then. I feel like there was just commonplace. You and I right now, this was the’50s, we’d be smoking cigarettes on this podcast right now.

Brady Cramm: That’s true, with our whiskey.

Garrett: The good old days.

Brady Cramm: Instead, it’s just this inaudible vodka in a water bottle.

Garrett: It’s just the vodka. No, I thought it was good. I just liked it more because we, I think sometimes, don’t respect the past nearly as well. And so, one of the concepts I had that I thought would be fun to talk about was, what do you think, Brady, we could learn from stuff they did in the’50s, that we don’t even do anymore? In other words, I think marketing go through cycles where newsletters are out right now, but remember when they were big?

Brady Cramm: Mm- hmm.

Garrett: Now it’s all about your social. But before getting a big following on social, it’s all about building your email list. And before that it was about writing handwritten notes. You had a big Christmas card list. But I bet you, a lot of those things are going to come back. Like influencer marketing, you didn’t really hear a ton about for a while. Then all of a sudden, it became the hottest thing. Even though we’ve been doing it now for over almost, what, 70 years? So to you, what’s some stuff maybe from the past that you could see coming back? Anything?

Brady Cramm: I mean, I think we’ve kept all the right things. I don’t know, you could even-

Garrett: Radio is huge.

Brady Cramm: Yeah.

Garrett: Is radio just gone forever?

Brady Cramm: It is in my life, but I don’t think it’s gone forever.

Garrett: You know what I mean? Airport ads were so big before COVID.

Brady Cramm: But it’s because you and I don’t listen to the radio.

Garrett: Billboard ads.

Brady Cramm: We have our cell phones, so we’re not really looking at airport ads. So it’s like the reason why it’s not there is because it doesn’t work as well. But I think even a lot of things in this ad, you might find an influencer doing a TikTok video that talks about this is the gift they’re giving all their friends this Christmas and why.

Garrett: Yeah, top 10 gifts for men and then you get two pocket knives, a paperweight holder, slingshot, nice pen.

Brady Cramm: Yeah, I know they’re still … in industry, vendor gifting is big. My nephew, his uncle got this crazy dump truck as a vendor gift with all these gifts in it. And he just gave it to the nephew, but he’s in construction. And so, that’s still a big thing, is all the partners he works with, they’re all gifting each other.

Garrett: The conferences. I tweeted out that we’re no longer allowed to sponsor booths.

Brady Cramm: Yeah, I was talking to a prospect and we laughed about how conferences used to be more of an actual shopping mall. People are there to buy and now it’s more of a theme park.

Garrett: Or a graveyard.

Brady Cramm: Where the inaudible have fun.

Garrett: The exhibition halls are pretty depressing.

Brady Cramm: Yeah. Everyone’s just selfish. Everyone’s trying to get them to buy from you. Even though they approach you like they’re interested in your stuff, they really just want you to be interested in what they got. Which there’s always a mutual connection, but-

Garrett: But you and I have talked about this, I feel like direct mail would work better now. I feel like billboards can work better now. I feel like out of office works better. I feel like sports partnerships can work better now. I feel like there’s so many things… in- person sales pitches. Imagine trying to win the Chesterfield account as Ogilvy back then. Would you have ever done that over a telephone call or would you have flown out? You’d fly out.

Brady Cramm: Yeah, you’d fly out.

Garrett: So, I think humanities remain the same. I think technology plus a pandemic spun us in so big of a circle we forgot where the real leverage is and it usually comes from human interaction. So, I would be curious how you could get more IRL, in real life going on, and get away from so much digital. But if you could deliver the in real life digitally, now you’re getting best of both worlds.

Brady Cramm: But even to your point, direct mail to someone who works from home, this is such a cool time for that.

Garrett: Correct.

Brady Cramm: I’ve never received, from outside directives gifting to me, I’ve never received anything from a potential partner to my house.

Garrett: Correct.

Brady Cramm: I think the technology is there to find the home address and-

Garrett: That’s what I’m saying. I feel like if we can go back in time, you’re almost always innovative. The first person to wear some JNCOs is definitely an innovator in this fashion space.

Brady Cramm: What are JNCOs? Chicos? Pants?

Garrett: JNCOS? Yeah. With the big-

Brady Cramm: Like a khaki pant? I don’t know.

Garrett: No. Look it up, inaudible JNCO jeans. Yeah, yeah. Go to the bottom. Yeah, do you remember these?

Brady Cramm: Oh yeah, the shuffling.

Garrett: Yeah, from the ’90s.

Brady Cramm: The parachute jeans.

Garrett: Yeah, see, so-

Brady Cramm: Those are sweet.

Garrett: …now you’re a fashion icon if you bring them back. My point being, is just like fashion, marketing goes through cycles. And I think anytime you can get out of the current cycle and into the next one quicker, the better you’re going to be. So, remember when we got into the game, everything was webinars?

Brady Cramm: Yeah.

Garrett: Now there’s no webinars. Everything was podcasts, now it’s YouTube shows. As long as you can get out of the current and into the future, I think you always have a spot in marketing to keep staying innovative, if that makes sense?

Brady Cramm: Yeah.

Garrett: You want to be on the early side of a cycle, in my opinion, instead of the late side. You don’t want to be the group still doing white papers right now, you know what I mean? You want to be on the other side of white papers.

Brady Cramm: So, I think that’s what you can learn from the past is why don’t we do this anymore? What would we keep doing? And replacing the why we don’t with, what’s its best way now?

Garrett: Or why we used to do it this way. Because I think-

Brady Cramm: Yeah, the reason for it.

Garrett: Yeah, exactly. The core root of what’s occurring.

Brady Cramm: Yeah, and then how does that fit in today’s world.

Garrett: Correct.

Brady Cramm: And it could be, you might not find something new with that thought process. But every now and then you could probably think, ” Oh, no one’s doing it this way.” But this is exactly what they were going for back then.

Garrett: What we were talking about earlier, was B2B and B2C taking from each other. I always tried to take from B2C and bring it to B2B. And if I was in B2C, I would take from B2B and bring it to B2C.

Brady Cramm: Just like direct mail. I always get direct mail for B2C services and products.

Garrett: But never for B2B?

Brady Cramm: Nope.

Garrett: And that’s what makes it stand out. And I think that’s the part people forget, is doing the unexpected. I always say that at Directive, our marketing has to be shockingly memorable. When you go and introduce that shock factor, that wow factor that, ” Oh, I’ve never got this before. This is different.” Remember people pay more for different, not better, which we talked about a lot. But just being innovative, creative and different is always critically important for your campaigns. So, do you want to show us what you found, Brady?

Brady Cramm: Yeah, let’s do the finding of the week. All right, scarlet’s going to pull it up. Can you hit slideshow for us? Yeah, we’ll full screen it. Perfect, thank you. So, this was a first time doing this analysis, but it’s based on a theory that I’ve had, which is around cost per click as an indicator of value.

Garrett: Oh yeah, you and I have talking about this forever. Your most expensive conversions are usually your most valuable ones. So, when B2C advertisers show up in B2B and then they decrease, ” Oh, these are all your most expensive cost per conversions.” And then they essentially decrease your CPA and they clap for themselves. And the company makes way less money because some of your most expensive conversions are also your most valuable ones, right?

Brady Cramm: Exactly.

Garrett: That’s the theory you and I have had for years.

Brady Cramm: So usually you can’t find it in a platform because they’re only tracking form fills. So, normally you see the cost reduced-

Garrett: Correct.

Brady Cramm: …as it goes through a pipeline inaudible.

Garrett: But now that we have offline conversion tracking, Salesforce, bidirectional syncs, things like that.

Brady Cramm: You can do it in the account. But this one, this is pre… before they purchased and started working with us. And so, this was their old setup. This was working off of form fills. And so, as I was going through their search terms, I was just seeing a handful of different intent, very top of funnel, some very bottom of the funnel, like people looking for solutions. And so, I had this thought to prove that theory with very clear data and I ran an average cost per click filter. So, I went into their search terms for this campaign and I looked at data for when cost per click was less than$ 20 and I’ll get into that screenshot at the top after. And so when I filtered that, the cost per conversion was 4, 370 and the conversion rate was 0. 27. And then I looked at what happens when the average cost per click within the set of search terms is above$ 20? The conversion rate tripled to the point where their cost per conversion, even with a higher average cost per click was… I have it in the text. $ 1,570 less.

Garrett: Yeah, about 50% less too. Just basic math.

Brady Cramm: Yes. So, the reason why this stood out was… and why I looked at this in the first place is they were running this campaign on maximized clicks. So, you’re telling Google, ” I want as many clicks as possible.”

Garrett: Google’s like, ” Yes.”

Brady Cramm: Given my budget and given my targeting. And so to make that happen-

Garrett: Google wants to eat, they’re going to-

Brady Cramm: …Google is going to find the lowest cost per click to maximize the clicks. This is essentially what the algorithm is looking to do.

Garrett: Did you overlay this with demographics? So you could see household income on CPCs under 20?

Brady Cramm: No, this was strong enough.

Garrett: But you know what I’m saying. I guarantee you, you’re going to see age and income drastically skewed across, under or over with whatever that…

Brady Cramm: Yeah, I don’t know if you can do a cost per click analysis.

Garrett: And did you see if… was the breaking point 20 bucks or how did you get to… You know what I mean? Versus 15 or 25? Or how did you determine 20?

Brady Cramm: So, first I was just looking at what is converting at high rate, seeing what that cost per click is. And then I was just playing around with what happens when I do 50?

Garrett: The line in the sand.

Brady Cramm: What happens when I do this? And I wanted the cost to be pretty even. So, you can see 118, 000 when it’s less than and 96,000 because I could have done an extreme. I could have done more than$ 50 and maybe conversion rate was 2% and it was lower. But if it said you’ve only spent$ 5, 000 on those searches, it would be less of an impact. And then the other thing is they were losing impression share, due to budget and rank. So, there’s a ton of room in the campaign to show up more for what’s working great and to be more aggressive on cost per click because they’re losing due to rank. So, those two metrics is why it actually meant something and they could change it immediately. But I thought it was interesting, it was just such clear-

Garrett: It’s exceptional.

Brady Cramm: …that high cost per click is not always a bad thing. Yet, what their algorithm was doing was trying to really lower cost per click and get as many clicks as possible.

Garrett: So, what would you recommend they move their bid strategy type to in a situation like this? So someone’s watching the show. they go in, they find what they find their breaking point is, and maybe it’s$15, $50, $ 200, whatever it is for their industry. What do you move that bid strategy type to when you find data like this?

Brady Cramm: So, I would have to test a few things. So, I would test maximize conversions without a target CPA, just to really let Google get aggressive.

Garrett: Bro.

Brady Cramm: And see how well the product holds up and the conversion rate.

Garrett: It would have to be a pretty accessible product to do that though, right?

Brady Cramm: Yeah. And it depends on the negative keyword lists and how open- ended the targeting is.

Garrett: Would that type of strategy require daily bid management at this size of budget on keyword management?

Brady Cramm: Yeah, like negative keyword management?

Garrett: Yeah.

Brady Cramm: If that hasn’t been done in the past, even using this bid strategy, there’s a ton of data to do-

Garrett: Correct.

Brady Cramm: …negative terms.

Garrett: And when you do that, you want to get Engram analysis, right?

Brady Cramm: Yep. So, that just means aggregating data for specific terms within the search terms, so you can-

Garrett: And when those terms are either isolated, paired together, or tripped together, or quaded together. So anytime, let’s say these two words are in the same search, we know that we either drastically decrease or improve our performance anytime one individual word, like, free, cheap is in it.

Brady Cramm: Yeah, what, how, inaudible terms.

Garrett: Sometimes locations. So, if you don’t serve a location or you’re a national player, you keep losing… I remember for you and I, remember back in the day, if someone looked for New Orleans SEO agency.

Brady Cramm: And we weren’t in New Orleans.

Garrett: And we weren’t actually in New Orleans physically, real presence there, we would get our butt kicked, for example. So, just really helping you understand intent. So, Engrams are huge for that. But no, I love this analysis. I think you could build another filter around demographics like I talked about. Because I think the biggest thing to learn about this and what I think this is my only feedback to Brady on this and what I would say if I was in the room, is I want to tie it back to humanity. So, I want to learn as much as I can about the humans, not just the CPCs. I think too often-

Brady Cramm: I mean this was a part of it because a lot of the waste was immobile, which likely a lot of the lower CPC is mobile traffic.

Garrett: Here’s my point. Advertisers will say that all the time. They’re like, ” You’re not doing as well on mobile,” or, ” You don’t do as well on Tuesdays,” or, ” You don’t do as well after 3: 00 PM.”

Brady Cramm: As in, why is mobile not working?

Garrett: But they don’t talk about the humanity of it. So, I remember that was a case with a customer way back in the day, and I was more involved here, but there used to be a box on Meta. I don’t know if they still have it where I could say mobile, but only if on wifi. Remember that?

Brady Cramm: They’re connected to wifi, so you know they’re not moving around.

Garrett: Now I knew they were stable, they were less… They were more at their home or on their couch. And I found way better CPAs. So, it wasn’t that mobile was broken, it was that humans who were mobile, on mobile weren’t… and this was early internet, so we didn’t have as good websites, not as good a checkout processes, things like that. But my point here is more whenever you find something in advertising or marketing in general, and it becomes about a data point, like over$ 20 CPC, we do better than under$ 20. Do not stop there. Be curious and try to find psychological and human parallels to why psychologically it’s not working. Who is this psychologically affecting and get to the point of humanity. Anytime you can turn essentially campaigns that are highly analytical in a platform into human findings, you can then take those human findings and apply it to all your other campaigns and you’ll start to become a really, really powerful marketer, frankly, these days.

Brady Cramm: That’s the reality.

Garrett: Because data’s made us bad. It’s made us less creative, less curious, worse at copywriting, worse at the actual art of marketing. We are now very good at the science of marketing, but we’re way worse at the art. I think when you find something scientific and you have the wherewithal to turn it into art that connects to a real human, now you’re the best marketer in the world.

Brady Cramm: What are the actual searches in that filter versus the other one? That’s the strength is-

Garrett: And who are the humans actually searching it? What age are they? How much money do they make? Where do they live? What are their hobbies?

Brady Cramm: inaudible 20 all questions. Are they students?

Garrett: Can you layer it with the LinkedIn pixel and maybe get even more insights? What are their job titles? What are the size of the companies they work for? What other marketing technology do they already have in their tech stack? As you start putting that all together, now you have a narrative around which humans are less likely to buy from us instead of which CPCs work best for bid adjustments. And that’s when the game changes. And that’s what I think makes Directive special, is that passion to tie the science back to the art.

Brady Cramm: Yeah, I always tell prospects we’re realists.

Garrett: Yeah, hyperpragmatic.

Brady Cramm: You actually think about what’s happening and that’s where all the performance comes from.

Garrett: Yeah, it does not come from this insight. It comes from this insight once it’s been extrapolated against your industry positioning, ideal customer persona. Actual users, actual converters.

Brady Cramm: This is a showcase and opportunity.

Garrett: Correct. An insight, a moment, a tactic. And then once you extrapolate that into a campaign, now you have something powerful.

Brady Cramm: Yeah, exactly.

Garrett: I love it. I love it. All right, welcome to Market This! Okay, ironically on today’s recording session, it’s the first day in the history of Brady Cram.

Brady Cramm: I don’t know man, I told you I’m a little sick and-

Garrett: That you’re not wearing…

Brady Cramm: Yeah, I’m wearing jeans, which I haven’t worn-

Garrett: I know. Great choice on the black jeans by the way, good coordination.

Brady Cramm: I don’t know why I grabbed them. They are not comfortable.

Garrett: It’s true.

Brady Cramm: But I didn’t remember what I wore last episode, so I was like-

Garrett: Dude, that’s the worst.

Brady Cramm: … I may haveworn this green button up, which is also …

Garrett: Oh, shout out Peter. Also on the pants.

Brady Cramm: Yeah, black jeans.

Garrett: Also on the black jeans. Shout out Scarlet. But she actually looks more comfortable. Are those jeans?

Brady Cramm: Yeah, leggings. Leggings, jeggings.

Garrett: Leggings.

Brady Cramm: Yeah. I’m wearing these jeans, this is…

Garrett: I know, I looked at the logo, it’s like V-L.

Brady Cramm: The shirt’s Vuori though.

Garrett: Okay, okay. So we do have some Vuori on. Well, let’s say it’s the first time in Brady’s recent life that he wasn’t wearing Vuori.

Brady Cramm: I’m telling you, I’m a little out of it.

Garrett: That is out of it.

Brady Cramm: I regret the decisions.

Garrett: So on Market This! Today, we’re talking athleisure. Is that what it’s called? Athletic leisure, athleisure?

Brady Cramm: This is the category that I wear, even though I’m not athletic.

Garrett: Okay. So, this is what we’re talking about. We go to lunch every week before the show. We’re always like, ” Okay, what should we do this week?” And we’re always trying to figure out what it is. And I wanted to talk about this. I thought I had a pretty creative idea for how you could market this. And then Brady, I thought took it to a whole other level. So, we want to build an athletic leisure company for non- athletic people. So ironically, while everyone else like whoever and Vuori is designing… or even Quicksilver with their bathing suits or whatever, everything’s designed for motion. But we wanted to design all of our clothes for sitting. Because theoretically, okay, so the idea would be the Victoria’s Secret runway show, it’s very just stereotypical runway show, right?

Brady Cramm: No, I’ve never seen it.

Garrett: Okay. Of course you haven’t. My mom would close my eyes when Victoria… She would come over there and run over there when Victoria’s Secret came on when I was growing up. But let’s say you’ve never seen it and I’ll explain it to you. So models walk down a runway, turn around and walk back. Same as every other…

Brady Cramm: Zoolander.

Garrett: Yeah, just like Zoolander. So, what we would do is we would have models all wearing the exact same upper. So, men maybe would have a very stereotypical work attire, like a collared shirt, jacket, but all the same color jacket. All the same color colored shirts. So, there’d be no attention focused on the upper wear and then the bottom wear, at first, I know we have to… I know, I know, we’ll get to that. I know but we got to introduce the product in a shocking way. And then all the women are wearing the same, let’s say blazer, blouse combo. Also very professional, non- attentive colored scheme. Nothing risque, nothing to take away from the focus being on the bottom wear. And on the bottom wear, you would have your work from home attire. So, it’d be like a work from home runway model show. And it would be announcing our new product line and everything would be looking good on top but then comfortable at the bottom. At the end of the runway, we would have a desk, like a chair and you would sit and you could see how-

Brady Cramm: Spin around and inaudible.

Garrett: Yeah, exactly. Something like that. And it would hyper show off sitting in the bottom wear. But essentially, we would build athletic leisure brand to compete with Lululemon and Vuori. But fully designed around sitting.

Brady Cramm: Yeah. Well, I’m curious if we go to Vuori’s website, because I get their magazine and it’s all-

Garrett: Wait, they have a magazine?

Brady Cramm: Yeah, just like a catalog.

Garrett: Do we got to do a magazine to compete? See that’s great old ideas, catalogs still work.

Brady Cramm: I get their Instagram ads.

Garrett: But there’s no B2B catalog. Imagine if you had a B2B catalog. Like The Economist but for B2B. McKinsey probably does something. Those people look hot and like they work out and they’re fit. That’s not us. That’s not what we want.

Brady Cramm: So, I guess there’s some lifestyle in here, right? Those bottom photos look… I mean, he’s on a court, so maybe not.

Garrett: Dude, made to perform. Okay, but ours would be that same photo but you would be at your desk.

Brady Cramm: Yeah, stretching. Maybe stretching. These are all just white, running.

Garrett: Play.

Brady Cramm: So, this is all I wear except for today. I don’t do any of the things-

Garrett: None of these things.

Brady Cramm: …on this site. I sit on my ass all day and I have a standing desk. I don’t even stand.

Garrett: No, of course not, that’s just… Wait, they’re into fishing? I want to see. Come on, show me the fishing real quick. Charlotte, what do we got for fishing? I want to see what they call fishing. Wait, so you could just do anything in any of them? So they just …

Brady Cramm: They don’t even have-

Garrett: Time out. They don’t have different products for different activities?

Brady Cramm: Yeah. Even that’s their golf and it’s sweat shorts.

Garrett: Nobody golfs in those. What are you doing Vuori?

Brady Cramm: No, because I have Vuori shorts-

Garrett: Correct.

Brady Cramm: … thatI wear golfing.

Garrett: Yeah, you have to have-

Brady Cramm: Climbing, hiking. So yeah, they don’t have work.

Garrett: What? Yeah, yeah, where’s work?

Brady Cramm: Which go to the men’s dropdown and go to button ups.

Garrett: No liners. By the way. I don’t want no liners in our gear because I hate the underwear liner thing.

Brady Cramm: Yeah, some of their stuff has liners.

Garrett: Yeah, liners got to go.

Brady Cramm: Do, yeah, button downs. And then go the long sleeve button down.

Garrett: See that guy?

Brady Cramm: The pillows are nice.

Garrett: That guy look so fit. Look at these people. They don’t look like they’re about to go do work. They look like they’re going to go to a round of golf or something.

Brady Cramm: Maybe keep just scrolling down. They have really nice… yeah.

Garrett: Okay, so let’s go to the bottom right one. This looks like what Brady wears every day to work, yeah.

Brady Cramm: I don’t have that color. I have that one.

Garrett: Okay, but show them sitting, being a fat piece of crap like us.

Brady Cramm: Whoa. Okay, I’m glad you said us.

Garrett: I meant me.

Brady Cramm: So, this is what … We have executive meetings this week. I’m going to be wearing this. I might even have my Vuori vest over it.

Garrett: I mean, okay, vest. There you go. I got to get to two layers.

Brady Cramm: Yeah, I’m going to be wearing my-

Garrett: What about jackets? Do they have any sports jackets? So, we could-

Brady Cramm: …my Meta pants.

Garrett: Can we get Brady maybe a little bit more professional over here? I’ve seen him in those.

Brady Cramm: So, I have the black one, I have the gray one.

Garrett: How about a sports jacket? See what I’m saying? Because this is where, to your point earlier on the upper wear…

Brady Cramm: Yeah, they don’t really have a… Actually, I have a bomber jacket that I’ve worn.

Garrett: A bomber. What’s a bomber jacket?

Brady Cramm: It’s like the zip up with…

Garrett: Okay, I don’t want that, I want… Oh, like that. Okay, yeah, those are fine. But I don’t think that’s super… Do they have a sports coat? Like a sports jacket?

Brady Cramm: No.

Garrett: Because to me if… How about the quarter zips that we all wear over a collared shirt?

Brady Cramm: Yes, I wear those ones.

Garrett: Yeah, but those are too thin. They don’t look professional. You know what I’m talking about?

Brady Cramm: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Garrett: The material. You and I both have one.

Brady Cramm: They got some thick flannels.

Garrett: Yeah, dude, see they aren’t … Yeah, they’re meant for working out, and walking, and jogging.

Brady Cramm: But they have all the attire to put together a good business outfit, goodish. It depends on the tech culture.

Garrett: Tech culture, correct. But there’s not a second layer unless you do the patented VC vest.

Brady Cramm: Yeah. But even a work culture where it’s a nice T- shirt and pants, they’d be perfect for it.

Garrett: Yeah, that is perfect for it, yeah.

Brady Cramm: Button ups, they have it. Polos, they have it. I agree, the jacket layer, there’s not too much semi business casual.

Garrett: But not one of these dudes is working from home, there’s no… This is where I think we have a spot. Can you go to Lululemon for us real quick, Scarlet? Let’s see if Lululemon is doing any…

Brady Cramm: There’s this guy. Yeah, they don’t position it… Their TV commercial is this super skinny girl in front of her workout mirror and my wife and I are just sitting there trying to watch Family Feud inaudible.

Garrett: I just think we need to be the least aspirational athletic wear ever.

Brady Cramm: More realistic.

Garrett: Yeah, yeah, hyperpragmatic.

Brady Cramm: Because their stuff is perfect for working. Okay, so they’re more lifestyle.

Garrett: Yeah, I can’t tell if they sell shoes or the pants. Are all of those for sale by Lululemon? That’s weird.

Brady Cramm: Yeah, I think that whole-

Garrett: All those are pants, okay. So they’re selling pants with a tapered trouser. I want to see a dude working though. Okay, keep going. This is a weird way to shop, by the way. With that weird left to right thing on the top.

Brady Cramm: So, if you go down more, they had work, I think. Go up, inaudible, yeah, go down. Those check boxes on the left.

Garrett: In the middle.

Brady Cramm: Keep going, keep going.

Garrett: Underneath type, yeah.

Brady Cramm: Keep going.

Garrett: Here we go, activity.

Brady Cramm: Activity.

Garrett: Yeah, go to activity.

Brady Cramm: Work.

Garrett: Work. There we go.

Brady Cramm: So, they actually have one.

Garrett: Which is good.

Brady Cramm: Okay. I mean, they have the blazer and you’re talking about out. So, not too much.

Garrett: I mean, they have six options bro.

Brady Cramm: Yeah, they’re not really spending time inaudible.

Garrett: I think we could get after this.

Brady Cramm: Well, that’s what I was thinking. Even the data we have, we know all the companies that work from home. We know all the people who work at those companies. We know all their spouses.

Garrett: Why are the models so young? I can’t get over it. Would you ever buy clothes as a male from a model that looked younger than you?

Brady Cramm: I mean, the guy in the middle, I don’t know how old he is.

Garrett: Perfect skin.

Brady Cramm: He could be really good skin in his 60s, or 18.

Garrett: I mean, come on. That guy’s not that old. No, these guys are all young. That’s a young kid, dude.

Brady Cramm: Yes, I know.

Garrett: They don’t have any male… like dad bod. You know what I mean? We need some dad bods, older models. Okay, so here’s my thought. Do you remember Chubbies? Chubbies was big when we were in college. Remember that?

Brady Cramm: Yeah, I know the brand.

Garrett: We had ambassadors at the college, but their branding. See, these people look a little bit more normal. See the little gut right there on the sports shorts. Thanks homie, that’s what… See that right there, little belly hanging out. That’s what we need. We need a little bit of belly. We need a little bit of this is what we actually look like in these things. There’s no abs, you’re not allowed to have abs and buy from us.

Brady Cramm: But they are a fitness brand, which is why I think they have a hard time doing that.

Garrett: Correct, we’re not a fitness brand. We’re a work from that that see that dude in the middle? He’s going to love our stuff and they have to be optimized for him sitting.

Brady Cramm: Yep. Because Target’s done it well in terms of body type representation.

Garrett: Well yeah, because if you were Vuori, see this right here? And I was on Vuori, I had its way too tight of a shirt and I was sitting like this, you could see my belly on the show. I wouldn’t want that. So, if we could come up with things that hide your belly a little bit. Your pants are optimized for sitting.

Brady Cramm: So, I’ve seen ads for that, where-

Garrett: Really?

Brady Cramm: …yeah, it’s like, ” God, I’m not confident inaudible,” They’re like, ” It’s your shirt,” and it’s like, I guess tied up here inaudible.

Garrett: I did see those, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Brady Cramm: There’s an Instagram ad for it. But I think even outside of that, it’s just the work from home. Same exact clothes because the athleisure style is comfortable and they focus so much on comfort for doing activity.

Garrett: Yeah, but there’s a lot of guys like me who just don’t want to feel lazy. That’s my problem with it. Is there’s no brand that has the same material as athleisure that I can wear and I don’t feel lazy.

Brady Cramm: But it’s even more comfortable when you’re not even active in it. If it’s comfortable while you’re running, it’s comfortable when you’re just sitting down doing nothing, except for working all day.

Garrett: Okay, so if it’s work from home style, what features do we… let’s get specific.

Brady Cramm: So, I was trying to think about that.

Garrett: For our shorts, what do we want? I mean, all the shorts have to have pockets. I got to have pockets.

Brady Cramm: Yeah, they need pockets.

Garrett: Can we have some? Because you know how sometimes with that athleisure, when you’re just being a lazy… Okay, so your Nikes, did you ever have Nike sweats? Like the Heather Gray, classic traditional Nike sweats? Do you know what I’m talking about? The cotton ones?

Brady Cramm: Yeah.

Garrett: The heavy, just… your keys, your… all your crap always falls out of those. So, can we have the pockets can’t lose anything, without zippers. What if we could develop pockets that you never… nothing ever escaped out of, but without zippers? I think that’d be a good pitch.

Brady Cramm: I think you could do some type of elastic at the top to where you can still get your hand easily, but it’s nothing… you’re not digging in it, it closes up a little bit.

Garrett: I do love the draw, the elastic bands on those gray sweats, can we have… How do we want-

Brady Cramm: But the thing, so with my Vuori shorts I wear when I’m working from home, they’re so lightweight that I think they have a hard time handling just sitting in a office chair all day. So, I noticed some of the stitching in the back is-

Garrett: Wow.

Brady Cramm: …starting to get loose.

Garrett: Cheap labor, cheap materials from these guys. I mean, we got to build a more heavy duty product, optimized for sitting.

Brady Cramm: I think you could go thicker on the material.

Garrett: Yeah, you’re not active enough for Vuori.

Brady Cramm: Because you don’t want to run in thick material.

Garrett: No, we don’t run.

Brady Cramm: When you’re sitting, you don’t mind it. So, I definitely think… I mean, one, you could just take their clothes and you could rebrand it for more realistic leisure, doesn’t have to be athleisure. It’s just working from home.

Garrett: Which is what… There’s one in Austin that was super famous that went out of business that was more like this. It was like Outdoor Voices or do you know what I’m talking about Scarlet?

Brady Cramm: They sound outdoors.

Garrett: Yeah, no. Yeah, so click on this one. They were much more about, I think being… Oh, well they went bankrupt and they got a new owner and it looks like everybody’s skinny again. See, that dude right there needs his tummy popping out a little bit. That’s the same model, isn’t it? That dude on the top left, I feel like I just saw him. No, down, that one. Yeah, on the bottom left. Oh no, they’re different.

Brady Cramm: What about the middle one? He’s got more wave in his hair in the…

Garrett: I know, dude.

Brady Cramm: Is that him?

Garrett: I don’t know. But they all have the same type and I’ve never seen any of these … None of these are my friends.

Brady Cramm: These faces are funny.

Garrett: That’s what I mean. You get what I’m saying? I feel like if you just used real people and you built the clothes for them, you could crush.

Brady Cramm: Would you crush though?

Garrett: Oh yeah.

Brady Cramm: I don’t know man.

Garrett: I think we would, I think we totally would because see, it’s all for recreation. What if you just want to sit. Like you said, Vuori is made so much for motion that the stitching doesn’t work if you sit on them too much.

Brady Cramm: But the nice thing is, those button up I have, they feel like PJs.

Garrett: Okay, but how do they rest? So, if you’re sitting, when you wear the button up, is it optimized? Does it need-

Brady Cramm: I think so.

Brady Cramm: No, I know what you’re saying. It

Brady Cramm: fits well. I mean, that’s why I like the brand so much is shoulder width, everything. They’re large, it fits me so well. But the button up shirts are so comfortable.

Garrett: See, I would want to make sure my button ups were optimized for slouching, like slouch optimized material.

Brady Cramm: But I wear those out. But even if it did show some belly, it wouldn’t matter because I’m just right here on video all day.

Garrett: I like that. inaudible.

Brady Cramm: You want to make it, you’re not going to have a men’s button up crop top because who cares, your Zoom call is chest and up, you know?

Garrett: Yeah, we want it optimized.

Brady Cramm: Yeah, want to be able to wear it out. I just think Vuori could have a massive campaign about work from home.

Garrett: Yeah, but they don’t, so this inaudible.

Brady Cramm: I discovered it myself is, wow, their stuff. I could pull off a work outfit and wear it all day at home and it’s super comfortable. All their advertisement and positioning would say, ” Oh, Brady needs to get off his ass and do something-

Garrett: It’s meant for working.

Brady Cramm: …active before he buys this clothing.

Garrett: So, how do we do that for us? So we have our persona, people who work from home.

Brady Cramm: So, the cool thing is, is the data. You could take the biggest… I mean, if we want to do a higher end higher price, we could control where people are working, the average salaries there, likely in tech. We could around the holiday season even find their spouses, advertise to them on social, with the positioning work from home, knowing they have the money and knowing that spouse works from home.

Garrett: I had a idea around it.

Brady Cramm: Let’s hear it.

Garrett: So, what if we did a hyper, hyper stereotypical calendar photo shoot for each one? So, when you bought… let’s say, so bought that gift from us and when you came in the packaging, it came with a calendar and it was really like a modern day look book, but it was just people wearing all of our products in the most… and you could have inspiration on it. So, you could have them wearing a … A VC person wearing a vest and everything, but then we would have a interior design group sponsor it, so the work from home setup was sick. So, you could get inspiration on the work from home setup while also seeing what people were wearing while working from home. So, it’d be like a 12 different shoots we did, of 12 different work from home setups in 12 different versions of our outfits.

Brady Cramm: You could have pre- filled meetings.

Garrett: Correct.

Brady Cramm: With the outfit you’re going to wear.

Garrett: Correct.

Brady Cramm: Using the clothes and the meeting, yeah.

Garrett: I feel like that’d be sick.

Brady Cramm: Yeah, I haven’t really seen it.

Garrett: No.

Brady Cramm: Yet I live it every day.

Garrett: Well, we would’ve features. I guarantee you there’s features that you could put on the butt, that-

Brady Cramm: Little padding.

Garrett: …I mean, I’m open to anything, a little butt padding. Maybe the way we do the in seams is different because it… Once again, these seams are meant for moving. What if we just need the seams to be better for sitting?

Brady Cramm: Yeah, I mean I think you could even get into the compression sock game for blood flow, while you’re sitting all day.

Garrett: Oh yes, blood flow, tights. Yeah, you could do blood flow tights. Optimize your work from home with tights and they’re just like… You could send them to some… If you could get Elon to wear them and Elon tweets out that he feels more productive wearing his tights, make some meme out of it, I mean-

Brady Cramm: Little wrist padding for the typing.

Garrett: Well, that would be a TikTok viral product. If you had men wearing tights and working from home all day, it would go viral on TikTok.

Brady Cramm: Yeah, I think most of the stuff, you got to build it to where they feel like they could go out to the grocery store and not have to change because they look ridiculous with their extra thick butt pad in their shorts. I feel like you can’t go that far with it, or if there is padding in the wrist for typing inaudible-

Garrett: I mean, there’s another way you could take this. You could do work from home slash men’s lingerie. I mean there is a place where you could take this, that could be viral and go somewhere, where there’s not really a product for it.

Brady Cramm: Yeah. I don’t know where your head’s really going there.

Garrett: Well okay, so if we were to sell the tights.

Brady Cramm: Yeah, but I think-

Garrett: You wouldn’t be on camera.

Brady Cramm: No. And I’d probably wear just shorts over tights. I know that’s a workout thing, but everyone sells it as like… Well, I personally don’t know if it helps you not cramp your legs or whatever it is.

Garrett: I don’t know but if we could do it for how it would help you with work.

Brady Cramm: But I do know blood clots can happen on long plane rides and so, compression socks are good for that.

Garrett: There we go for that.

Brady Cramm: So, I figure that carries over to sitting in a chair for eight hours a day.

Garrett: I love it.

Brady Cramm: Yeah, a whole brand around it.

Garrett: Yeah, because there is this weird thing too about temp control. Sometimes you’re sitting at your office and you can’t get between hot or cold. We could have a way to get there. Better temperature control. I don’t know how we do it yet. But imagine if you could design material something always kept you 72. That’d be pretty good. I feel like we have legs on this one. How would you advertise it? Anywhere else?

Brady Cramm: I mean, social’s big. There’s a lot of influencers. I follow some hilarious tech sales meme accounts now, that I found over break and it’s just so funny.

Garrett: Why? Because-

Brady Cramm: I’m trying to think.

Garrett: Give us a verbal meme.

Brady Cramm: It’s just a guy working a deal and it’s how people act while they’re on the call with the prospect and then the second they hang up, just how they act off the call and a guy trying to hit his number before the end of-

Garrett: The quarter.

Brady Cramm: … Q4.It’s just good memes. But there’s people like that who could easily position this brand outside of… I think just the brand itself. The targeting is there. The product market fits, there’s just, no one’s really… It’s all self- perception. Like I said, it’s my own perception of Vuori on this is perfect for work. Vuori does not advertise me saying-

Garrett: That it is perfect for work.

Brady Cramm: ” … OhBrady, this is perfect for your work.”

Garrett: That’s what I’m saying.

Brady Cramm: I figured that out myself.

Garrett: If we just had a hyper niche product that was just athletic leisure built for work.

Brady Cramm: Niches work and it’s a huge niche, it’s not even-

Garrett: No, everyone works from home.

Brady Cramm: …we’re picking out a grain of sand here.

Garrett: No, it’s a massive idea. So, that’s how we would do it. Any final thoughts?

Brady Cramm: Still looking for that Vuori sponsorship.

Garrett: Yeah, you’ll get it.

Brady Cramm: I apologize it for only wearing a shirt today.

Garrett: Yeah, I know. That’s on you, bro. If you really want to earn that sponsorship, you got to step up your Vuori game. Wear more Vuori.

Brady Cramm: I don’t think that’s possible, unless I start wearing socks and boxers.

Garrett: Then it’s game over.

Brady Cramm: inaudible cap it out.

Garrett: Yeah, you have a hat. Do they have shoes yet?

Brady Cramm: I have hats.

Garrett: Shoes?

Brady Cramm: They don’t have shoes.

Garrett: Got to add that to the game. I love it. Well, thanks everyone for tuning in. As always, like, subscribe, ring the bell so when we post new videos and shorts, and download the podcast, leave comments, rate us, review us on Apple, Spotify, YouTube. So yeah, thanks everybody.

Brady Cramm: See you next week.

Garrett: Bye.